In threads on the topic on Twitter I have been told a few times that of course there’s no such thing as a fetish for breastfeeding, that it’s our filthy minds that are sexualising it all.
This is despite the existence of ‘lactation porn’ of various types. I helped admin a breastfeeding helpline for many years and we had to develop a protocol to deal with creepy men who called it (sometimes claiming to be women, sometimes claiming to be speaking on behalf of their partners, sometimes just wanting to talk about breasts, bras & milk). We developed a quick line of questioning that speedily ascertained whether these calls were genuine - there are 2 questions to ask which immediately reveals when there’s no baby (I won’t repeat them here as who knows who might be reading).
The other line I have been confronted with three times now is ‘well, plenty of cis woman breastfeed for fetishistic reasons too, why don’t you criticise them?’
Male breastfeeding is a potentially serious safeguarding issue. It’s horrendous that anyone in the health services should actually support the idea.
The other argument I've heard a lot of this week is how sexual and arousing women find it, too? I mean for god's sake.
The fact that we're even having to have these discussions...so many trans activists this week have DEMANDED that I provide evidence that men breastfeeding is unsafe - when my post is about how there is no evidence at all for the claims being made in the media? But - I have to provide evidence to COUNTER the false claims??! WTF??!!
Yes, in theory women under the influence of a heavy load of oxytocin can feel somewhat aroused when breastfeeding their babies. The difference is that women feel really guilty and ashamed if this happens (because this is unplanned, unanticipated and unwelcome), but this arousal is WHY MEN WANT TO BREASTFEED.
Not a sexual paraphilia? Ha, google "lactophilia" and you will see a whole aspect of men's fantasies that you will never be able to unsee again.
Even the La Leche League Leaders who are convinced that "inclusion" means helping "everyone" to breastfeed complain about some men. Like the ones that join in breastfeeding support zoom meetings and take over the conversation (no baby, just a desire to be included as one of the girls) or the man masturbating on camera during a breastfeeding toddler support meeting. (And yes, there is a group of men out there who base their kinks around breastfeeding toddlers.)
I'd like to think something is in the water or an alien brain wave disruptor has been aimed at the Earth, but, alas, I fear people are just this insane naturally.
Transwomen (males) produce naturally good milk.
No!
Males are not meant to produce milk, and the substances these males are given to cause them to lactate can't be healthy for the infant.
I remember reading something from La Leche League back in 2014 scolding women who had concerns about the increasing use of terms like "chestfeeding." Unfortunately I didn't save this sharticle, but it did call the dissenters TERFs and the less common FART (feminism-appropriating radical transphobes.)
I was still in my "be kind" phase at this point, but this bothered me.
Only women breastfeed.
Feminism is only for women.
It's strange that it took me three more years to see how truly awful queer theory and identity politics is. I blame the alien brain wave ray.
I know what you mean about the alien brain way ray delay. (shame that's not an acronym ABWRD, no, doesn't work, shucks). I was a bit the same. I kept being told how kind I had to be and how I didn't want to be on the wrong side of history (circa 2018/19) and how 'if your feminism is not intersectional it's bullshit'! and all that kind of stuff. My rational brain could see the truth but part of me was still worried I was wrong. Maybe that's a good thing. Being 'worried you are wrong' and really interrogating your thoughts is positive. That's what I tell myself anyway!
For a really good argument about how intersectionality hurts women, read Holly Lawford-Smith's book "Gender Critical Feminism". She explains this clearly, but if I had to summarize her book in one sentence it would be that when intersectionality is prioritized as the most important thing, women never make it to the top of the to-do list as there is always someone more oppressed than we are.
Literally just reading about this (how there's always something "more important" than feminism, even within feminism), in "Difficult Women". That and how "intersectional" isn't used to mean what it was originally meant to mean these days. All very interesting seeing all the same things as have always played out playing out again in this whole subject! Yet also very, very frustrating.
This whole male lactation story has so many holes in it that I remain amazed at its reach. Unlike 99% of others reporting on this, you Milli are really nearly the only one offering any commentary who is at least literate. I suspect that most didn't take any time at all to research the original story and once it was out there generating headlines, well mission accomplished from a journalistic point of view.
I also remain amazed that really no one is positing whether this is even a legitimate topic for debate at all. There is literally a mountain of evidence around the harms of disrupting the mother/baby dyad, without which male lactation can't even be attempted. But once again the rights and "needs" of men override mere women and babies.
Yes there is not enough talk about the baby and the rights of the baby is there? Babies reach for the nipple - they are programmed to find it, partly through the sense of smell and the smell of the amniotic fluid etc. A baby taking the nipple of a male is being taken advantage of, they do not consent, they are being duped. It's abusive.
Apologies if time already posted this but when was the broadcast? I’d like to submit a compliant to bbc of the back of your excellent research. Thank you as always Milli for shining light and clarity in the sheer madness!
Here is a call to action I put together, hope it helps:
CALL TO ACTION
Please take a moment to complain to the BBC over their interview on their BBC News programme THE CONTEXT of KATE LUXION at around 845pm on 19th Feb 2024.
Focus of complaint: the piece implied that the WHO and several research studies support the idea that male induced lactation is of the same or better quality than milk from women. This is false reporting.
Points to include:
The presenter introduced the piece, entitled, 'Trans-women's milk as good as breast milk', by stating that the NHS trust had 'referred to studies and WHO guidance', wrongly suggesting that this supported the claim that male people's milk is as good as breast milk. Of the 'studies' the trust cites, only one of them is about lactation in a male, the rest are all about lactation in females. The WHO guidance that the trust refers to concerns the benefits of women breastfeeding over formula milk and is not about induced lactation.
The presenter also referred to 'one case which found what it called no observable effects in babies fed by induced lactation'. This study was in fact into the effects of a female person taking testosterone whilst breastfeeding.
The guest, Kate Luxion, went unchallenged as she furthered the misinformation of the story, never once mentioning that 4 out of 5 of the studies and the WHO guidance concerned breastfeeding in females. She also suggested that milk made by a male was of 'better quality' than breast milk. This is false information and based on the only study in the NHS trust letter that is on male milk, and found it to have a higher fat content. Being higher in fat does not mean it is of the equivalent or better quality than a mother's milk.
Kate Luxion is not a breastfeeding expert - why was she asked on and allowed to spread misinformation unchallenged?
If you have extra time, please also contact BBC Radio 4 More or Less and ask them to investigate the claims made in the news coverage of this story. moreorless@bbc.co.uk
Good you are continuing with this, Milli.
In threads on the topic on Twitter I have been told a few times that of course there’s no such thing as a fetish for breastfeeding, that it’s our filthy minds that are sexualising it all.
This is despite the existence of ‘lactation porn’ of various types. I helped admin a breastfeeding helpline for many years and we had to develop a protocol to deal with creepy men who called it (sometimes claiming to be women, sometimes claiming to be speaking on behalf of their partners, sometimes just wanting to talk about breasts, bras & milk). We developed a quick line of questioning that speedily ascertained whether these calls were genuine - there are 2 questions to ask which immediately reveals when there’s no baby (I won’t repeat them here as who knows who might be reading).
The other line I have been confronted with three times now is ‘well, plenty of cis woman breastfeed for fetishistic reasons too, why don’t you criticise them?’
Male breastfeeding is a potentially serious safeguarding issue. It’s horrendous that anyone in the health services should actually support the idea.
The other argument I've heard a lot of this week is how sexual and arousing women find it, too? I mean for god's sake.
The fact that we're even having to have these discussions...so many trans activists this week have DEMANDED that I provide evidence that men breastfeeding is unsafe - when my post is about how there is no evidence at all for the claims being made in the media? But - I have to provide evidence to COUNTER the false claims??! WTF??!!
Yes, in theory women under the influence of a heavy load of oxytocin can feel somewhat aroused when breastfeeding their babies. The difference is that women feel really guilty and ashamed if this happens (because this is unplanned, unanticipated and unwelcome), but this arousal is WHY MEN WANT TO BREASTFEED.
Not a sexual paraphilia? Ha, google "lactophilia" and you will see a whole aspect of men's fantasies that you will never be able to unsee again.
Even the La Leche League Leaders who are convinced that "inclusion" means helping "everyone" to breastfeed complain about some men. Like the ones that join in breastfeeding support zoom meetings and take over the conversation (no baby, just a desire to be included as one of the girls) or the man masturbating on camera during a breastfeeding toddler support meeting. (And yes, there is a group of men out there who base their kinks around breastfeeding toddlers.)
This should come as no surprise to anyone because it is a direct result of combining "be kind", the erasure of women and the adoption of gender-neutral language for sexed activities. https://lucyleader.substack.com/p/la-leche-league-eliminates-mothers
I'd like to think something is in the water or an alien brain wave disruptor has been aimed at the Earth, but, alas, I fear people are just this insane naturally.
Transwomen (males) produce naturally good milk.
No!
Males are not meant to produce milk, and the substances these males are given to cause them to lactate can't be healthy for the infant.
I remember reading something from La Leche League back in 2014 scolding women who had concerns about the increasing use of terms like "chestfeeding." Unfortunately I didn't save this sharticle, but it did call the dissenters TERFs and the less common FART (feminism-appropriating radical transphobes.)
I was still in my "be kind" phase at this point, but this bothered me.
Only women breastfeed.
Feminism is only for women.
It's strange that it took me three more years to see how truly awful queer theory and identity politics is. I blame the alien brain wave ray.
I know what you mean about the alien brain way ray delay. (shame that's not an acronym ABWRD, no, doesn't work, shucks). I was a bit the same. I kept being told how kind I had to be and how I didn't want to be on the wrong side of history (circa 2018/19) and how 'if your feminism is not intersectional it's bullshit'! and all that kind of stuff. My rational brain could see the truth but part of me was still worried I was wrong. Maybe that's a good thing. Being 'worried you are wrong' and really interrogating your thoughts is positive. That's what I tell myself anyway!
For a really good argument about how intersectionality hurts women, read Holly Lawford-Smith's book "Gender Critical Feminism". She explains this clearly, but if I had to summarize her book in one sentence it would be that when intersectionality is prioritized as the most important thing, women never make it to the top of the to-do list as there is always someone more oppressed than we are.
Literally just reading about this (how there's always something "more important" than feminism, even within feminism), in "Difficult Women". That and how "intersectional" isn't used to mean what it was originally meant to mean these days. All very interesting seeing all the same things as have always played out playing out again in this whole subject! Yet also very, very frustrating.
This whole male lactation story has so many holes in it that I remain amazed at its reach. Unlike 99% of others reporting on this, you Milli are really nearly the only one offering any commentary who is at least literate. I suspect that most didn't take any time at all to research the original story and once it was out there generating headlines, well mission accomplished from a journalistic point of view.
I also remain amazed that really no one is positing whether this is even a legitimate topic for debate at all. There is literally a mountain of evidence around the harms of disrupting the mother/baby dyad, without which male lactation can't even be attempted. But once again the rights and "needs" of men override mere women and babies.
Yes there is not enough talk about the baby and the rights of the baby is there? Babies reach for the nipple - they are programmed to find it, partly through the sense of smell and the smell of the amniotic fluid etc. A baby taking the nipple of a male is being taken advantage of, they do not consent, they are being duped. It's abusive.
Apologies if time already posted this but when was the broadcast? I’d like to submit a compliant to bbc of the back of your excellent research. Thank you as always Milli for shining light and clarity in the sheer madness!
Here is a call to action I put together, hope it helps:
CALL TO ACTION
Please take a moment to complain to the BBC over their interview on their BBC News programme THE CONTEXT of KATE LUXION at around 845pm on 19th Feb 2024.
Focus of complaint: the piece implied that the WHO and several research studies support the idea that male induced lactation is of the same or better quality than milk from women. This is false reporting.
Points to include:
The presenter introduced the piece, entitled, 'Trans-women's milk as good as breast milk', by stating that the NHS trust had 'referred to studies and WHO guidance', wrongly suggesting that this supported the claim that male people's milk is as good as breast milk. Of the 'studies' the trust cites, only one of them is about lactation in a male, the rest are all about lactation in females. The WHO guidance that the trust refers to concerns the benefits of women breastfeeding over formula milk and is not about induced lactation.
The presenter also referred to 'one case which found what it called no observable effects in babies fed by induced lactation'. This study was in fact into the effects of a female person taking testosterone whilst breastfeeding.
The guest, Kate Luxion, went unchallenged as she furthered the misinformation of the story, never once mentioning that 4 out of 5 of the studies and the WHO guidance concerned breastfeeding in females. She also suggested that milk made by a male was of 'better quality' than breast milk. This is false information and based on the only study in the NHS trust letter that is on male milk, and found it to have a higher fat content. Being higher in fat does not mean it is of the equivalent or better quality than a mother's milk.
Kate Luxion is not a breastfeeding expert - why was she asked on and allowed to spread misinformation unchallenged?
For a more detailed breakdown of the original NHS letter and the inaccuracies of the BBC report, please see: https://millihill.substack.com/p/dear-bbc-youve-got-your-facts-wrong
To complain, please visit this link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint
If you have extra time, please also contact BBC Radio 4 More or Less and ask them to investigate the claims made in the news coverage of this story. moreorless@bbc.co.uk