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Grace Under Fire's avatar

First of all Milli, I ADORE the "Field of Fucks" picture. I cackled more joyfully than I have for many a year.

I also loved your first three paragraphs. I call those "be kind" hormones the "Doormat Hormones" because they made me into a doormat who could never do enough for others, and boy, twhen those went, there was a MASSIVE shock for my family that lasted for years. We still love each other but those years have gone down in family legend.

And I agree with everythng else. I was sad that the fabulous Janice used the wrong pronouns for Debbie Hayton, but I'd much rather her article was published as it was than not published at all. I am ambivalent about Debbie, but I'm very glad he is not afraid to be honest and that he now uses men's loos. He's also vocal and takes a lot of flack for it, which I respect.

If this is ever going to end, I think we have to be prepared to accept that we will have to compromise. For example, if it was understood, by the law, by hospitals and schools, by the government and everyone else that men are not and cannot ever become women and should never be included in all the places feminists say that matters, then I wouldn't mind using the wrong pronouns in their presence (which would never include in a courtroom, because it is far too misleading, and not the truth) - feminists because they are by definition women with very few fucks to give, and they don't waste them on giving way to men.

I want this to end: we have so many other things to fight about - porn, prostitution, surrogacy, "be kind", prisons, male violence..... the list is so long, and yet we hardly have time to make our case because we are barricading the gates of the citadels that our mothers and grandmothers built for us. We have to get real. We need to refuse to be silenced, then decide on our red lines and win this battle. We will never beat them into submission because we still live in a patriarchy, so we have to decide where we are willing to compromise - and where we are not.

On the other hand we could just dismantle the patriarchy. Now there's a thought. That would take quite a few proverbial fucks.

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Suzanne Yates's avatar

Thank you Milli for another brilliant round up of some current threads in the current trans-situation. For me on the key most toxic things of the whole situation is that, unlike most other situations, different points of view can't be held and indeed welcomed.. Anyone who raises a differing point of view is immediately shot down.. attacked in the most viscious way, merely for acknowledging the complexity of it.. but especially on the core issue that transwomen are men...or my current phrase "men pretending to be women". Because yes, as we all know, they can never be women, and that is what is the delusion that is being sold. So I respect Hayton for being clear on that.. And Helen Joyce in her book Trans also talks about autogynephilia..And I respect Hayton for talking about the difficulties we are creating for children. I think a key aspect of what he says, is that it is about taking responsibility for oneself and not being a victim and demanding rights. especially when those rights take away the rights of others, ie women..

On another note, just to say, please don't buy into the misinformation that you are "low or lacking in oestrogen".. Did you know that it simply is going back to levels we had pre puberty.. ? We don't talk about girls being low in ostrogen.. It's normal for levels to be lower both before and after our reproductive years... it's physiology.. we don't need so much because our bodies aren't maturing eggs and building womb lining.. We have enough oestrogen for us.. to last us till we die.. AND we still keep producing it.. I think the lack, or low can lead us to think we are less strong.. but we are not.. we are perhaps stronger emotionally ..

Keep the good work going.. thanks...

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